Transcript
INTRO
Jigar Shah: Energy is not just an industry. It's how the world works. My name is Jigar Shah, and I'm a clean energy entrepreneur.
Jamie Nolan: And I'm Jamie Nolan, a clean energy communications executive, and this is Energy Empire. Jigar, what's up?
Jigar Shah: New York Climate Week is up. So much stuff going on. We just had an extraordinary session in California with so many bills that were passed that are all designed to help the utilities reduce people's rates, and everyone's on pins and needles trying to figure out whether Gavin Newsom cares.
Jamie Nolan: I know it's a tough one, because he's not always friendly to distributed energy resources. So I'm looking forward to seeing what happens. I believe he has 30 days from the end of session with which to make decisions. So by the time this episode drops, we might have some answers. But can you talk about some of the pieces of legislation that you were most interested in?
Jigar Shah: Well, SB 905 is the one that we have been looking at so closely. Josh Becker has really been shepherding this through the legislature, and Deploy Action, which I'm on the board of, is pushing it pretty hard. The goal behind it is to figure out how to get the utility company to better utilize what we've all paid for, and figure out how we actually get bills down. I think everyone is fully aligned. We had Carla Peterman at our launch in Sacramento earlier this year.
I just think that we're in this place right now where whether it's the DSGS program, which is how you fund behind-the-meter battery storage, or whether it's the balcony solar bill that we just talked about with Cora Stryker, it's so confusing as to whether Gavin Newsom is going to really allow Californians to take full control of their power bill.
Jamie Nolan: It's kind of wild to me that he's a Democrat, but he isn't always across the board friendly to these very low cost, high value energy sources. And I think that today's guest is a really great spokesperson for one of the frontiers of DERs right now. Cora Stryker from Bright Saver is joining us. They're a national nonprofit organization that both sells balcony solar arrays and educates legislators nationwide about balcony solar and what it can do to empower consumers and give them access to clean energy.
So these balcony solar arrays are really tiny, one to three panel systems that, I mean, it doesn't have to go on your balcony. My next door neighbor has one just propped up on his back deck. But basically they give people affordable access to small amounts of solar power. And they kind of almost act as an energy efficiency measure to your house that can reduce your power bill.
Jigar Shah: Well, and collectively, and I think this is a theme from New York Climate Week, collectively, all of these small actions become very, very large, right? When you think about all of the work that people could do at the local level, at the state level, not only passing these bills, but if you get millions of people to install these units. When you think about it, Germany's already at 4 million systems deployed for balcony solar, and that's almost 4 gigawatts of capacity.
That's not nothing. At a moment when everybody's talking about the fact that the grid can't keep up, and data center demand and AI load growth and EVs and all this other stuff, getting a bunch of people to save money by getting these things shipped to their house, they unbox them, they probably could do an unboxing video, and then just hang it on their balcony and start saving money. You just plug it right into the outdoor outlet if you have one and you're good to go. It's crazy how easy that is.
Jamie Nolan: It's crazy how easy that is. Absolutely. And that's why we're seeing the proliferation of this legislation nationwide. I think it was about 35 states that are considering bills or have passed bills that enable this power. So I'm really excited to learn more about this from Cora. And also, I want to make sure to ask her about what the growth of this type of solar means for the contagion effect in solar power.
So we know that when people can see solar in their communities, they're more interested in getting it for their own home. So if balcony solar makes solar panels more visible in communities nationwide, what's that going to do for the growth rate that we're seeing for this technology broadly? So can't wait to talk to Cora. Let's get into it.
A CS DROPOUT, A MONASTERY, AND A NOVEL
Jamie Nolan: Cora, you're a tropical field biologist, a Zen monk. I want that story, even if it's after the pod. And you write novels. So at what point did you look at all of that and think, what this CV is missing is a nonprofit that sells solar panels?
Cora Stryker: That's a fantastic question. I think in some senses, I'm really impatient and I really like to make things.
So at first I wrote code. I was a CS major, and really quite burnt out, wrote all night every night for two plus years. And then in my CS dropout time, I went to the monastery and I thought maybe that would restore me. And it was obviously not my thing. I was quite terrible at it. I missed meditation frequently. So that was kind of short-lived.
But the novel thing, I really tried to chill out and live in the forest and just be with nature, and found myself writing at night. And just became really obsessed with creating things. The blank page is really exciting to me. And Bright Saver is not the first organization I've started. It feels similar, making something that's never been made before, that addresses a really hard, seemingly impossible problem. It's just how I feel most alive.
WHY A NONPROFIT ALSO SHIPS THE KITS
Jigar Shah: I love that. So you're the co-CEO of Bright Saver. And now you work with legislators in dozens of states. You publish research on balcony solar. You run the public education side of this. You also ship the kits yourself and sell them at cost. $414 for a 360-watt system, which is roughly half what a commercial kit runs per watt. Why do you do both?
Cora Stryker: Yeah, that's a great question. Why do we make life hard for ourselves?
Look, we started Bright Saver with a vision, and our vision was Germany. You can walk around a German city and you see these beautiful apartment buildings where every single balcony is covered with this magical black glass that makes energy from the sun. And it's like, why isn't that us?
That seems such an obvious solution to many, many challenges we face. And from the beginning, we knew that we wanted to do something where you can touch it. You can see it. Your neighbor has it, particularly in areas where rooftop solar has not penetrated. And we know that clean energy, solar in particular, simply is cheaper, is the cheapest energy on the planet. But that awareness has not spread to every community.
So we thought to ourselves, if we can make solar completely affordable, if we can make it no net expense per month for a household, then it'll be adopted en masse. Now, how did we get into policy? How did we get into research?
Because that initial hypothesis turned out to be quite simplistic. Our original model, and this will sound really familiar to you, Jigar, we wanted to lease these balcony solar kits, and we wanted to match the monthly lease payment to the savings. So it was no net expense on a monthly basis, of course, also leading to ownership eventually and free solar energy.
But we got a couple emails from PG&E. We shouldn't have been surprised. They said, hey, you still need an interconnection agreement for these little systems.
Jigar Shah: Such a killjoy.
Cora Stryker: Such a killjoy. It feels silly, but okay. And it's not only silly, it's inhibitory to the market.
Look, in Germany, you own it. It's an appliance. You go to IKEA, to your grocery store, you buy it, you bring it home, you plug it in. The friction is almost zero. And that is essential for this thing to take off the way that it has taken off in Germany.
You also mentioned half the cost per watt. These balcony solar systems, even the ones in this country that we're selling, are half the cost per watt of installed rooftop solar, because we're not talking about professional installation, which as we know is half the cost of installed rooftop solar. And I want to say at the outset, we love rooftop solar. I have rooftop solar. I wish everyone could have it. I wish every rooftop in the nation was PV material. That's not a reality. How do we get from here to there?
THE BILL THAT GOT REWRITTEN
Jamie Nolan: So a company selling these types of systems has to work inside the rules as they are, whereas as a nonprofit, you can go after the rules themselves. So do you think that selling the hardware gives you more credibility in a state house or less?
Cora Stryker: It's a great question. I think it would give us less credibility unless it was completely obvious to everyone that we're trying to change clean energy adoption in this country. We're not trying to turn a profit. So that's one of the reasons we structured, at least initially, as a 501c3. We make nothing on these kits.
So I think that if our brand wasn't palpably save the world, we may have that double-edged sword. I'll tell you, I've seen this legislative process play out in 35 states plus D.C. There really have been for-profit companies who elbowed their way in there with their well-paid lobbyists and representatives and rewrote the law.
Just as one example, there's one particular state. We saw the first draft of the bill, really great, solid first draft. It was interfered with. The legislative process was interfered with under the guise of education, right? And this for-profit company rewrote the bill so that if it passed as is, only their system would be legal.
Jamie Nolan: So you're not going to tell us what state it was? We want the tea. We want the tea, Cora. Where was it? If I say where it was...
Cora Stryker: I implicate.
Jigar Shah: But was it another balcony solar company? Got it. All right. Well, not everybody has a Zen monk background.
Cora Stryker: Well, listen, I was not monkish at all. I was in that hearing and God, I got pissed. I got so angry. The person who testified, who was an employee of this for-profit company, straight up lied on the stand, said that kits cost a different amount than they did, said it didn't require, that a renter could have it. It was so enraging. And I thought I might get in trouble for speaking my pissed off mind.
But I didn't. Good news. The bill was rewritten. And now it's much more neutral.
Jamie Nolan: Good. But somebody has the deets and they're going to drop it into the comments on our LinkedIn page when we post the clip of this episode. They may well.
Cora Stryker: I mean, it's public record. The hearing is public record.
Jamie Nolan: Sure. I know it's out there.
WHAT ARRIVES AT YOUR DOOR
Jamie Nolan: So if I order your kit today, walk me through what happens. What arrives at my door? What do I do once it arrives? And then how can I expect that to impact my monthly bill? And finally, do I need an electrician?
Cora Stryker: Okay. Three very interesting separate questions.
So what arrives at your house is a pretty small package. I've seen 80-plus-year-olds lift these. You open it. You plug it in. That's it. They're quite small. And we size them this way for two reasons. One, safety. Well, actually, I would say three reasons. One is safety.
They're maximum 360 watts. That is what the rulemaking panel of the NEC update, which will happen in 2029, have done their analysis on. That's what they say is safe for anyone to plug into any outlet without an electrician. So that's why that is the maximum wattage for us. But it's also because that's the maximum we can squeeze into a package to ship it cheaply enough for the cost per watt to be reasonable.
Do you need an electrician? It depends what state you're in. This, again, is why we're attacking this problem from so many directions, because it's a complex problem. Some states require an electrician in statute. Some don't.
Jigar Shah: So that's why that feels like a poison pill. And I love my electricians. But that seems like a poison pill.
THE ELECTRICIAN POISON PILL
Cora Stryker: We really don't like it. We very clearly oppose any legislation that requires that in statute, because it's never going to change. Look, all these bills that have been defeated, they've been defeated by raising safety concerns, some real, most fictitious.
And this is one of those fictions that simply is raised by parties that have their own economic self-interest and want to confuse the public and lawmakers. It's really quite angering. I get really quite upset about it.
Jamie Nolan: That's wild. Okay, we may need to post a table of the states where you do and do not need, quote unquote, looking at that with a side eye, where you need an electrician.
Jigar Shah: I don't know about that. Well, your brother-in-law is an electrician, right?
Jamie Nolan: Yes, I do. My brother-in-law is an electrician in D.C. He mostly does energy retrofits, like big projects. He worked on the Kennedy Center for a long time, the Capitol building, things like that.
One follow-up question, though, about that, Cora. How much is this really meant to impact someone's monthly power bill? Because it seems like such a small amount of power that this is more like an energy efficiency measure almost.
WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAVES YOU
Cora Stryker: Absolutely. I think that's not a bad comparison. And it's really hard to estimate monthly savings because, of course, we live in areas with wildly different electricity rates, sometimes within the same zip code.
You can have a municipal utility and then you can have a shareholder utility. And the shareholder utility is about twice the cost per kilowatt hour. So it's really hard to estimate it.
So I would say if people are interested, you can go to our website, brightsaver.org. We have a savings calculator. You enter your zip code. If you live in one of those weird zip codes like Sacramento or Palo Alto, where there is a municipal utility, you can choose which one from a dropdown.
Where I live, energy is extraordinarily expensive. So even these tiny systems, the 180 watt system, would save about $100 a year. You can do the math. It pays for itself in two to three years. The larger system is a better price per watt. That one, at least in my area in California, will pay for itself in less than two years. So again, impossible to say in broad brushstrokes for the whole nation, but you can look it up.
Jigar Shah: Yeah. Especially because renters and others are involved. But if you compare it to a rooftop solar system, the average rooftop solar system is sort of like eight to 10 kilowatts, and this is 360 watts. So this would be like 5% of the size of a rooftop solar system.
Cora Stryker: 100%. And there are household savings for individual households, but in a way it's a communications tool. It's saying, particularly in areas that have been slow to adopt solar, it's a way to say, hey, look, you can own your own energy. It's cheaper than the fossil fuel energy you buy from your utility. And it just sort of metastasizes. You have one, your neighbor doesn't have one, you start talking to them, they become jealous that your energy bills are going down.
GERMANY'S 800-WATT GROCERY STORE KIT
Jigar Shah: Well, let's get into that, Cora. In Germany, you can buy an 800 watt kit at the grocery store, at IKEA, at the Home Depot equivalent. So what would it take for you to be able to sell this thing in a Costco?
Cora Stryker: Well, listen, that's the vision we're heading toward, right? That is not just the German vision. There are other states where that is the case.
What would it take? A year and half ago when we started Bright Saver, I would have given you a different answer than I'm going to give you today. Because today, I know that the first necessary step is legislation.
Why? Jamie, I think you said this, because it's ridiculous that you should need an interconnection agreement for these little systems. They don't backfeed to the grid at all if they're small enough. And they don't require visibility by the utilities, unless we're talking about scale. And we can talk about that even in that scenario.
Jigar Shah: Well, let's talk about that. The German grid operators, I believe that there's 4 million systems installed. And that's a couple of gigawatts at least, maybe even 4 gigawatts, depending on how big these things are. Does that worry you, or is distributed energy that the grid can't see actually the point? Is it supposed to be more like energy efficiency?
Cora Stryker: Well, we were worried about that too. And that's where we come in as sort of a little think tank. So we did a study with Brooks Engineering modeling out, okay, what would happen if 40% of the U.S. population in every region had systems that are 1.2 kilowatts, so much larger than these systems we're talking about, with no backfeed prevention, no battery.
Even in that scenario where 40% of the US population has these 1.2 kilowatt systems, you're not going to see any net export to the grid on an hourly basis. Why? Because if I export a little bit to the grid, my neighbor is going to consume it almost on the spot.
So yeah, we were worried about that. We think that the evidence shows quite clearly that that is not something we need to worry about.
WHY YOU CAN'T BUY ONE HERE
Jamie Nolan: Okay. So now let's come back to the US. My local Aldi, that's my closest grocery store, and IKEA do not sell balcony solar. But my understanding is that these kits are mostly right now available online. And your site says an order can take up to four months to get it in hand after placing the order. So why is it so hard to get one?
Cora Stryker: That's a very simple question with a very complex answer. I think that the best way to think about it in broad strokes is Germany is a mature market. This has been around in Germany for at least a decade.
And what we have is a ton of manufacturers competing against each other. And there's really no differentiator between these systems. The only differentiator is cost. So you get these competitive effects where we get to these dirt cheap German levels. And by the way, our system is not quite at German levels, but it's not far. Why? Because we're not trying to make a profit. We're pricing it at cost, as low as it can possibly go.
How do we get it into IKEA, Costco, grocery stores? First thing we need is regulatory clarity. Those same companies, we talk to them, the big companies that are selling in Germany that have a really good business there, they want to come to the US market. Of course they do. Look at our TAM. Look at the demand. But they see regulatory gray areas. They see a quagmire and they have a really good business going where they are in operation, and they don't want the liability.
We are seeing smaller manufacturers come in, but the really big ones, the ones that are going to make this fall to dirt cheap prices like we're seeing in Germany, they're staying out until they see enough states, maybe federal regulation, change in ways that won't make them liable.
35 STATES AND A PATCHWORK
Jigar Shah: So let's get into the regulatory quagmire and how many states have already done this. I think it's like nine U.S. states that have legalized balcony solar. California's got a bill on the governor's desk. He's got a long list of bills that he needs to sign. New York's got a bill that's passed both chambers and is waiting to go to the governor.
So talk to us about your win rate and the legal landscape and what you're seeing after all this success in 2026.
Cora Stryker: Yeah, it's been quite extraordinary. If you'd talked to me a year and a half ago, I would have said maybe two, maybe three states would want to introduce this legislation. In the end, it was 35 states plus DC that introduced this legislation.
And this is where we get into the different flavors of legislation, the patchwork. And you can look at it two ways. If I was God, and I'm told I'm not, then I would have had every single piece of legislation look the same. Why? Because that would provide the market uniformity it takes to get those big companies to come in and design an American balcony solar system. We didn't get that.
We got a patchwork. And that sucks because the TAM becomes fragmented and manufacturers need to develop different systems for different states. The good thing about the regulatory patchwork is that some of the states have a stronger piece of legislation that in particular make it clear that renters can have this technology, and those really strong pieces of legislation are going to push other states to follow suit.
Jigar Shah: What's the best one? What's the best one in the country right now? If you were to pick one of your children, which one?
Cora Stryker: I have three kids, so I'm going to give you three states. Colorado, New Jersey and Virginia. They all have renter's rights. The problem with Virginia is that it does need to pass through this weird commission. We don't know exactly what the outcome of that is going to be. But New Jersey and Colorado really are the most aggressive pieces of legislation. And they did what it took Germany several years to do. They passed renters' rights for these systems at the same time as they passed interconnection reform, which is the basis of all these 35 bills.
IF YOUR STATE HASN'T PASSED ANYTHING
Jamie Nolan: I was smiling as you were telling this story about the patchwork of legal frameworks and legislation, Cora, because that's the American way. Can you imagine us making it simple for people? We have 2,500 different utility service territories here in this country with 2,500 different sets of rules for everything.
I mean, frankly, it's amazing that the solar industry has even made it to where we are today in spite of these conditions. So where there's a will, there is a way. We will figure it out.
But it's good to know that there are some states that are getting it right, and hopefully the rest of them will adopt similar model frameworks. But what are the options that are available for someone who lives in a state that hasn't passed anything?
Cora Stryker: All of these bills, all 35 bills that were introduced, basically say these systems are so small that they are not beholden to the same interconnection rules that a large rooftop system or even a utility scale system would require. So it's an exemption from that interconnection fundamentally, which as we talked about is crucial for making this the widespread movement it is in Germany.
Now, if you live in a state where nothing is passed, or in some cases, if you live in a state where a crappy bill has been passed, all that means is that it falls outside that law, meaning you technically need to apply for an interconnection agreement.
I'll tell you, we have thousands of these systems now in the wild. Nobody, to our knowledge, has gotten a letter or an email or a call from a utility saying, hey, you need to fill out this interconnection agreement. Now, we know some people won't be part of that sort of early adopter guerrilla wave. They'll want to wait until they are 100% in the clear. And that's fine with us. We're talking about an S-curve of adoption here. And we're talking about the very beginning, right?
But as soon as we get that legislative clarity in a critical mass of states, we're going to head toward the rapid acceleration of adoption.
Jamie Nolan: Amazing. So you're telling me, I live here in Virginia. I'm not going to disclose my address, but my next door neighbor has had a balcony solar panel outside on his deck for several months now, much to my delight. And you're saying that he's a guerrilla early adopter.
Cora Stryker: You can look at it in a number of ways. You can look at it as sort of a subterfuge flying under the radar. You can look at it as a provocation, any which way. And look, this happened in Germany. This is how the adoption of solar has played out in this country. Jigar, you know this very well, right?
Jigar Shah: We are not promoting illegal behavior on this podcast. But I am saying that the extraordinary work that your nonprofit has done to get the National Electrical Code on board and codify it in 2029, as well as UL to come out with a special plug that protects people, means that people can safely install these systems because people have gone through the painstaking effort to make sure that they're safe.
Cora Stryker: Yeah, we could talk about that for a long time, Jigar, but that is the bottom line. And again, you need to keep the systems rather small. That's in your self-interest anyway. You don't want to produce more than you will consume.
THE BATTERY TUCKED INTO THE MODULE
Cora Stryker: And we're going to see more technologies come online as the market gets more and more mature. PCS, power control systems, are already in the R&D phase.
Jigar Shah: Let me ask you a question about that, because I'm fascinated about this. When you look at NEM 3.0 in California, they're basically saying, please don't send your kilowatt hours back to us, store them in battery storage, right? And batteries have gotten so cheap that a lot of the balcony solar systems just have a battery tucked into the module and a power control system, such that if your house isn't using any power right now, it just stores it.
So what side of the fence are you on? Are you on all balcony solar systems should just include this feature, or should folks just go and plug it in, and if their house isn't using anything, it goes into the grid?
Cora Stryker: One of the amazing things about balcony solar is it's so modular. It's not one size fits all. There's a different system that's appropriate for a different consumer.
So we love those battery systems. In Germany now, batteries are so dirt cheap. Almost every new system includes a battery. In this country, we're not at that mature market stage. So batteries are going to double, in some cases, triple the cost. So some households simply are not going to want to make that investment.
Jigar Shah: I mean, you could just tuck it right in, Cora. You could just tuck it right into the module. It's not going to even be noticed.
Cora Stryker: It's expensive, though. It's expensive to produce relative to the cost of the PV system, right? So what they notice, it's not about noticing.
For us, it's all about economics. We know economics are going to drive balcony solar to be nearly ubiquitous. In our white paper, we predict that we're going to see 60 million Americans have these by 2035. I have to tell you, the momentum, the meteoric nature of this movement has been beyond even my wildest dreams. And I'm a dreamer. I think it's going to happen even sooner. I think that we're going to walk around neighborhoods in the United States and these are going to be as ubiquitous as satellite dishes.
CAN YOU HAVE BOTH ROOFTOP AND BALCONY?
Jamie Nolan: Oh, that's exciting. Okay, so you've got me thinking here. Jigar and I both already have rooftop solar, but I've got a balcony. It doesn't have any solar panels on it. So could I get balcony solar, or does that mess up what I already have?
Cora Stryker: Yeah, you absolutely could. It would exist as a separate system. So this is where we get into the subtlety of your example earlier, Jigar.
If the grid goes down, these things stop producing energy. The inverter itself shuts off. So if you have a DC coupled battery, you're not going to be feeding any more energy into that battery. Now, I think the answer to your question, Jamie, is just that they're completely separate systems, but they do fall in most cases under your interconnection agreement.
So for instance, if you want to go by the letter of the law, for those of us who are lucky enough to have rooftop solar, we could install one of these, even in states that have no reform, even in states with crappy bills, and even PG&E, even the utility, even Dominion couldn't knock on your door and say you need an interconnection agreement.
Jamie Nolan: I'm going to have to keep this in mind, Cora. I know. I know. We're going to have to start...
Jigar Shah: Selling this in our merch store, Jamie.
Jamie Nolan: I know. I love it. That's awesome.
UTAH PASSED IT WITHOUT SAYING CLIMATE
Jamie Nolan: Okay. So let's talk about kind of, I know there's a great story about how balcony solar first got off the ground in the U.S. I want to give you a chance to tell that.
Utah's balcony solar bill was written by a Republican and passed 99 to 0 through both chambers. This is not a common story in this country. Red states and blue states are both moving on this right now. So do you think balcony solar could be like a Trojan horse for clean energy?
Jigar Shah: There's no soldiers inside, to be clear.
Cora Stryker: Yeah, you read my... Believe me, I love a good ancient Greek reference, but I don't think it's a deceptive move at all. I think it's quite plain. And I think that is something super exciting.
I've been on a bunch of podcasts. I think that that is the real potential here. It's not just that we get these into the wild. You can see them. You can touch them. You see concretely that these save money at the same time as making you more energy independent, as producing clean energy.
But also, there's so many ways into the fact that this is a no-brainer. Ray Ward, who's wonderful, I have him on speed dial. He sold this to pass it through both chambers in Utah, not on climate. Climate was not mentioned once. It was energy independence. It was don't tell me what to do in my own backyard. It was why can't I buy and operate an appliance? It was why can't you let me have this technology that will save me money? And all of those things, we believe as well, in addition to all of what we need to do this for climate and all of the potential.
Jigar Shah: But it is the case that it would have passed 105 to zero had you mentioned climate. Kidding. Kidding.
WE WIN IF WE DON'T TALK ABOUT CLIMATE
Jamie Nolan: No. I would like for the audience to take notes about what you just said, Cora, because I have been banging the drum on this. We will win if we don't talk about climate.
That is not a message to entry for a lot of folks. And the people who care about climate already like solar. We don't need to convince them. We need to convince all the people who are motivated by themes like your personal freedom to buy an appliance and energy independence and owning your own power. That's how we win. And so I love this story because it is illustrative of a lot of the things that we've talked about on this show.
So taking that one step further, my neighbor in Maryland does not believe that solar power will ever work at a large scale. I got this lecture at a crab feast a couple of weeks ago, and we had to go our separate ways once that came up. But this does seem like an idea that could finally lead to solar becoming commonplace anywhere and everywhere.
As you were saying, it's going to hopefully turn into something as ubiquitous and commonplace on people's properties as satellite dishes. So today, only 18% of Americans say that rooftop solar is common in their communities. And in the Midwest, these numbers are even lower at just 6%. So do you think balcony solar is better positioned to change people's minds than rooftop or utility scale?
THE COALITION FROM BANNON TO BERNIE
Cora Stryker: Again, we see it as the tip of the spear into this wider clean energy adoption watershed. Look, we know just the economics, just the cold hard cash argument is going to make clean energy the dominant source of energy in this country, probably worldwide.
However, we can't let it happen organically. We can't let it take 10 years like it took in Germany. I live in the Bay Area. And so I talked to a lot of venture folks, and fossil fuel companies know this, that the venture companies that represent the fossil fuel companies are actively investing right now in green technologies, because they know it's going to become the dominant source of energy. But guess what? They want it to happen on their timetable. They want it to happen in 20, 30 years. And we see our job as climate first people and affordability first people as pushing that faster.
And what you said about the apolitical nature of balcony solar is what we think Bright Saver's biggest value add is to this big clean energy adoption at scale dilemma. We have seen this incredible coalition, right, left, center, libertarian, progressive, come together to say, hey, balcony solar is a no brainer. No public subsidies, half the cost per watt of rooftop solar. Why can't we all have this?
And why have all these organizations that are climate organizations rallied around this issue? Because of what you just said, because they see it, as do we, as an opportunity to reset the political boundaries. Really erase the political boundaries.
Jigar Shah: So you're bringing Steve Bannon and Bernie Sanders together, just like data centers.
Cora Stryker: Would that be a good podcast?
Jigar Shah: But let me ask you about the price point. Because I think on the rooftop solar side, there's a lot of data that suggests that if somebody sees two installations on their drive, it drives one more. But that doesn't work in low-income neighborhoods, right? It doesn't really work in renter situations at $414. Are you seeing balcony solar able to break that trend and really just start getting this to become more commonplace because the price point's more affordable?
Cora Stryker: Not yet. We hope to. I was here in California, I was at the first hearing for the bill that just passed, and it passed unanimously, but there were two abstentions and both legislators, they weren't Republicans. They were far left Democrats and they got up there and they said, look, this is great, $400, $500 for this kit. Guess what? My constituents still can't afford that.
So no, we're not seeing that.
Jigar Shah: So this is not officially part of the DSA platform yet?
Cora Stryker: It would be amazing. Financing has to be part of this picture. Look, this is the tip of the iceberg. This, we hope, becomes a runaway train. And that's why, when we look at all we've accomplished in a year and a half since we have existed, we see this coalition as the most valuable thing. We want to be a membership organization as formidable as the AARP, as a collective voting bloc, and also as a collective negotiating bloc to get the lowest possible prices, like Costco.
UTILITIES WERE THE MAIN OPPONENT
Jigar Shah: So let me get into your experience in 2026 with 35 bills across the country, right? The main opponent, I think, in most of these states was the utility company. Huge shocker, but I think that's what the data shows. And balcony solar bills died in Wyoming, Georgia, Washington State, Oregon, red states, blue states, every time after the local utility showed a strong opinion. And their stated objective was grid safety. Their real objection, I think, is lost money as people use less power and flex their own power. So what do you think is actually driving this opposition?
Cora Stryker: Well, I would frame it a little differently. Yes, utilities came out of the woodwork, but they won because there wasn't the coalition, the strong coalition. So all those states you mentioned were what I would call kind of a spontaneous, like a thousand flowers bloom introduction of the bill. We didn't even know that was coming. Sometimes we just got the notification, hey, there's a bill in Oregon. There's a bill in Georgia. We didn't know.
And so we didn't have a chance to build that really strong coalition that could stand up to the utilities. I'll tell you here in California, we did have time to build that really strong coalition. And in hearing after hearing, there was a line outside the Capitol of citizens who had come to say, I support this. You have to pass this. This is something that Californians need.
Guess what? There was always a group of paid lobbyists, paid employees from the utilities, also in that courthouse, much shorter. But in places where we don't have that line outside the door, at the hearings, at the public events, yeah, utilities win. Why? Because they're paid to. And I think you're right. I think it is about lost revenue.
But I do want to be clear that utilities are not monomorphic. So as a shiny example that we invite all utilities to follow nationwide, Con Edison, the largest utility in New York, supported the balcony solar bill. And let me tell you, that was not an accident. We were one of three organizations that had been talking to them for months and they really listened. They listened to the actual safety concerns. They listened to what is this technology? What is the potential?
And in my estimation, they really put their customers first. They put climate goals first and they supported the legislation. We think all utilities should do that. We don't expect them to.
Jigar Shah: I feel like Con Ed backed it because they think solar panels are beautiful. And this is the beautification of New York City.
Cora Stryker: I would push back against that a little bit. I would say that they have really aggressive climate goals in New York and the utilities' feet are being held to the fire. They don't have an option. Maybe it's beautification. Maybe it's sort of a small fish that they feel their business model can absorb. We welcome it as a model. Motivations are complex.
DOLLAR GENERAL, SUMMER OF 2028
Jamie Nolan: Okay, Cora, final question here. We love a good prediction. When do you think that I will be able to go to my local Walmart and buy solar anywhere in the United States?
Cora Stryker: Well, it took a decade in Germany. It's moving so quickly in this country. I believe it will not take anywhere close to a decade.
So I mentioned our white paper earlier. When we wrote this a year ago, we predicted that one in six Americans would have these balcony solar units by 2035. But we also predicted that the legislative process would take much longer to play out.
What we've seen is just this overwhelming momentum, this overwhelming drive across the country to pass this legislation. And I think we've covered as much ground in one year as it took Germany five and a half years to cover in terms of the legislative picture. So I think we're going to move even faster.
Jigar Shah: So what I heard, Jamie, was Dollar General, summer of 2028.
Jamie Nolan: I would not be surprised. Cora Stryker, thank you so much for this extremely hopeful message. I'm going to carry this forward. It's not very often that we get to beat Germany on clean energy. So we look forward to having you back in two years when anybody in America can buy balcony solar out there in their local communities.
Cora Stryker: Yeah, I can't wait. More fights between now and then. But we're going to win because the economics are on our side. The market is trending in the right direction, but it's not going fast enough. That's why we have to be a collective voice saying, uh-uh. This is not in our self-interest. We need to drive this faster than the economics alone will drive it.
Jigar Shah: I love it. I love your energy. I love everything about this movement. I love the fact that it's grassroots. And I love the fact that you've already gotten the National Electrical Code and UL and others on board. This is exciting.
Cora Stryker: We're excited. And we're standing on the shoulders of folks like you who have been fighting this for longer than we have.
DEBRIEF
Jigar Shah: Well, she had so much energy. I love it.
Jamie Nolan: Yep, that was great. I will say, I think that this was one of our most requested topics. My friends that don't work in clean energy and know very little about it have been asking me about balcony solar. Is it worth it? Should they look into it? Is it even relevant to them based on where they live? So I'm really excited that we finally got to dig into this topic.
Jigar Shah: Well, the thing that I think we screwed up, though, is we kept talking about brick and mortar stores. And it sounds like this is all going to get to people's houses through Amazon.
Jamie Nolan: Yeah, I guess Amazon. Walmart.com, same, same. But for something really big and physical like this, I'm constantly at the Lowe's in Easton, Maryland. I absolutely would just pick this up when I'm there getting other home improvement items. And so I think that there's a place for both types of entities. Obviously, in New York City, you're not running to Lowe's. But in rural America, where it takes much longer to get an Amazon delivery, you are.
Jigar Shah: No, I'm for it. I think it's fantastic. I love the level of innovation happening. When I look at all the balcony solar products, one of the ones that I am working with is a company called CraftStrom, and they have the battery built into the frame and some other stuff. I just think that it's really cool to see how fast everyone's innovating in this space. And as she suggested, it really is like a dollar a watt to put this stuff in, which is crazy fast. At a dollar a watt, basically you're getting a payback of three to six years in every single utility in the country.
Jamie Nolan: Wild. I think it's the most exciting innovation occurring in the solar industry today. And so I really hope that some of these states that recently passed legislation are going to get in on the game. What do we think it's going to take for Gavin Newsom, who historically has not been super friendly to DERs? What's it going to take to get him to sign this bill?
Jigar Shah: I think we need a big protest sign in front of his rally in South Carolina is what you need.
Jamie Nolan: Who's going to organize that? Make some calls.
Jigar Shah: Cora. Cora is going to do that. I just think that in general, we're in a place right now, I think what she's saying is that there's just so much natural homegrown energy for this. And like with all the natural homegrown energy for the anti-data center movement, it's nice to see that it's a homegrown movement that's pro something. And I think that same group of people are pro balcony solar.
Jamie Nolan: Absolutely. I will say, in my former career as an environmental activist, one thing, I was very young. I was in my 20s. And I think that the environmental movement especially is really good at opposing things and not nearly as good at supporting things and helping to build things.
So I would love to see some of that energy put into expanding this movement. Because I want to see the analysis on if every household in America had one of these systems, what that would do to electricity prices, to the power grid, how much solar capacity would that bring on nationwide? I think it's a really powerful lever that we have to pull. And it seems like it's coming at a rapid clip.
Jigar Shah: Oh, yeah. We also need to go talk to our friend, Kenny Cooper, who runs the IBEW. I do not think he wants his people coming out and just plugging in a plug-in solar system into an outlet and saying, $274, please. That is not their best use of their time. They should be working on building data centers.
Jamie Nolan: Well, I don't know about that, Jigar. That depends on who you talk to. The IBEW is the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. My brother-in-law is a member of that union. Very powerful union. We actually are looking to have him on the show, I think, sometime soon. One of the fastest growing careers in America, I believe. But yeah, I totally agree. I can't imagine, what are you going to pay?
Just to get an electrician to come out to your house for a consultation, to get them to even show up, is hundreds of dollars. So I cannot imagine that that would be economical or efficient in any way to require that. And it seems like that's just a power play on behalf of the investor-owned utilities who we know don't like any threat to their ability to make money. And that's what these systems represent.
Jigar Shah: And I just want to repeat myself one more time, which is that do not illegally buy these things for super cheap, stick them in your credit card, and plug them in yourself. Don't just do it illegally in all 50 states, even though it's so easy to do so.
Jamie Nolan: Because you don't want to get sued?
Jigar Shah: Well, something. I'm just saying, big disclaimer. Jigar Shah is not telling you to break the law, but, you know.
Jamie Nolan: I am the CEO of this company, and I endorse this message. Please follow all local electrical and safety guidelines for balcony solar. That being said, we look forward to the proliferation of this technology legally and responsibly nationwide.
Jigar Shah: Oh, my God. Is this an alcohol commercial or a balcony solar commercial?